Handgun use AKICOLJ

[philmophlegm]

If you watch some action movie or cop show from the 70s or early 80s, there will be scenes where the tough guy heroes briefly hide behind a wall, pistols in hand, ready to search the next room etc. And they will hold their pistols in one hand, pointing straight upwards while they do it.

If you watch a similar modern movie or cop who, the heroes don't hold their handguns like this. Instead, they hold their guns in two hands (or one hand, with the second hand holding the other wrist) and the gun pointing straight down until they move, at which point it is held out at arm's length in front of them.

Has anyone else noticed this? When did the change happen? Does it reflect changes in police procedures or is it just that what Hollywood deems cool has changed? Last night we watched the film 'Munich'. This is a modern film, but set in the 70s. And the hero (Eric Bana) definitely uses the two-hands-down technique. Did Mossad invent the new technique...?

Comments

Handgun etiquette

[rich (from livejournal.com)]

80's action movies cared more about style rather than correct procedures.

Usually this was to convey a sense of recklessness in the main characters as well as little or no care for attention to detail.

Holding a weapon up or down is merely a safety precaution but usually just to keep the weapon in frame of the actors face.

Technical advisers on movies now have a more strict mandate regarding realism, however one must first decide whether or not the actions fit the character and story.

If the character holding the weapon has never held a pistol before then they should not be instructed to hold it as if they had received military training.

Your example of Munich is a perfect one of a film set earlier but with a modern attention to detail.

For true professionalism and attention to firearms techniques I'd advise watching Heat, The Way of the Gun & the television show The Unit.

Any more help I can provide just let me know, I'm an armourer in the film industry. twitter.com/Joe_Hallenbeck

Re: Handgun etiquette

[philmophlegm.livejournal.com]

I was right - All Knowledge Is Contained On Live Journal!

Thanks - that is a much better answer and much more informed answer than I was expecting!

Re: Handgun etiquette

[andrewducker]

Well, kinda on LJ - I reposted your question on Twitter, and when Rich responded I asked him to repost what he said on your journal rather than me copying/pasting myself :->

Re: Handgun etiquette

[philmophlegm.livejournal.com]

Well it's on LJ now! Thanks though...

[brixtonbrood.livejournal.com]

Fascinating.
So the corollary of this is that an actor playing an untrained civilian in a movie set in 1985 should hold a gun in a "Magnum PI" way, because that's what the character would naturally do. Whilst an actor playing an untrained civilian in a movie set in 2010 should hold it in a "24" way because that's the technique that a modern character (especially a young one) would have absorbed from the movies.

[steer.livejournal.com]

Also at some point in the 90s bad guy characters started to hold guns sideways -- that is, rotated 90 degrees about an axis running along their forearm. No idea why -- doesn't seem particularly practical. I think I once heard someone say it in some mystery way makes it harder for those "have you recently fired a gun" forensic tests to work. Seems unlikely.

[nojay.livejournal.com]

The sideways hold came out of Hong Kong action movies for no apparent reason. There have been a bunch of post-hoc reasons advanced for this, such as cheap self-loading pistols (aka "automatics") from the old Soviet Bloc wouldn't jam as frequently if held this way since the ejecting cartridge would tend to fall out rather than get stuck in the ejection port. The forensics-baffling excuse is new to me though.

The reality was that one guy did it, it looked cool on camera and the meme spread.

[steer.livejournal.com]

Thanks for this.

Actually, I found since you responded that, like everything, there's a wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Side_grip

[recycled-sales.livejournal.com]

This explains it (the Jon Davis response) but it's on Quora so you have to register to read it.

http://www.quora.com/Gangsters/Why-do-gangsters-hold-their-guns-sideways

[d-c-m.livejournal.com]

Hopefully someone asked a real military/law enforcement person how to hold a gun in such a situation.

[eatsoylentgreen.livejournal.com]

I fucking love that movie.

Oh and I don't know how I got here, but hi.

[andrewducker]

This forum post might be locked, but if not it's terribly educational:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3305243